Beyond the Screen with Microsoft's Guides App and the Evolution of Workplace Training - Christian Segurado

Mark Smith: 0:31
Welcome to the Power Platform Show. Thanks for joining me today. I hope today's guest inspires and educates you on the possibilities of the Microsoft Power Platform. Now let's get on with the show. In this episode we'll be focusing on mixed reality, arvr. We'll dive into warehouse automation and who knows, sprinkle a bit of AI through there as well. Today's guest is from New York in the United States. He works at a Mazers as a manager in system integration with Microsoft. He holds 16 certifications across Dynamics, azure and the Power Platform. He has done over 20 implementations across Dynamics 365, fno, ce, power Platform, mixed reality in various industries. Check out the links for his bio in the show notes for this episode. Welcome to the show Christian Thanks for having me. Pleasure to be here again. Yes, so, chris, the last time you were on was actually a bit of 50 episodes ago. It was episode 447. So if you want to check out that conversation that we had, just go to podcastnz365guycom, forward slash 447 and you'll be able to listen to that episode. So, and of course that was around you being an MVP and off the back of that I was like, hey, we've got another recording to do here because you're doing some really interesting stuff that I think the community would find valuable and really opening their thinking in this space. So before we get into that, normally I'd ask a bit about what you do Now. That's in the other episode and that's not too long ago so people can go and listen there. But what have you been up to lately? What's been on your radar in the last couple of months, last 90 days?

Christian Segurado: 2:13
Good question. Actually, I've been at Dynamics Community Summit in Charlotte so professionally that was always a highlight. I presented there with my peer MVP colleagues on the second day at the second keynote, if you want to tell it, if you want to mention it that way, had a couple of sessions on Mixerality, where I was, automation as well, as we're covering it today, and also commerce, and of course, co-pilot needs to be part of that too. So that was one of my highlights that was within the last 90 days.

Mark Smith: 2:49
Nice. How big was that event? As in like the last one I went to run by that organization was where was it? It was Texas, yeah. So wherever it went, I know that, with Gus Gonzalez, hired a vehicle and we went to the place where the old Texan, you know, the cowboy movies and stuff used to be shot. There's some town there that it was, you know, doc Holliday, all those type of things. I think it was back there. I might have got that wrong, actually, but it was amazing experience. I don't know where we drove to, way out of town and, yeah, it was a highlight of that and that was a pretty big conference at that time and, of course, that was the last one before the pandemic. So you know what were the highlights of that event.

Christian Segurado: 3:41
Wow, there are a lot of highlights. To be fair, it's always great to connect with your peers the industry is very small, like a little family, I would say. Everyone knows each other from a consultant side, that's how it feels, at least and great to connect with ICEVs, other partners, with Microsoft themselves and end users, of course, that come there and like to hear about the latest and greatest, and it's always good to hear their perspective, their pain points, their business problems. It gives a lot of insights as well what clients actually need, what are actually their business problems, what impact they're looking for, because that drives, in the end, which solutions you should propose or tackle with them. So those are my highlights, usually from those summits.

Mark Smith: 4:32
Yeah, yeah, so good, so good. Let's delve into, first of all, mixed reality, augmented reality and virtual reality. Can you first in your words, how, when people ask, well, what's the difference? How do you explain the difference between those three phrases?

Christian Segurado: 4:50
Good, good, good question Mixed reality itself. I mean, microsoft mentioned the mixed reality spectrum. Right On the far left, you would see augmented reality. Right when you overlay your physical environment with holographs. Right, you can still see everything around you, but you overlay the reality. On the other hand, on the other side, you have the VR fully immersed experiences, right when you are in a fully immersed virtual environment or reality. And well, if you would take a couple of steps up front, you'd probably walk against the wall because you don't see what's around you. Yes, so that's the difference between those two on the mixed reality spectrum.

Mark Smith: 5:35
So the main players in the market that jumps to mind for VR is, of course, facebook and what they've got with Oculus, right, yeah, right yeah. Would we also put in that category what Apple is doing in the space? Because although you can see the person's eyes, right, it's actually just a. You can't see through that device, right, it's not a. Would you call that augmented reality, or is that more virtual reality, good, or is it really blurring the lines between the both really?

Christian Segurado: 6:04
Good question. Let me start with the meta aspect that you mentioned.

Mark Smith: 6:09
Meta itself.

Christian Segurado: 6:10
Yes, they have a VR headset right, but the path rule with the Meta Quest 3 should be. It's very good, as far as I hear it. I ordered it, so happy to get it soon. It was announced that Meta connect right Nice. And what's also nice here is the relationship or the partnership that Meta has with Microsoft. Right, Because Microsoft Microsoft mesh experience is actually using the Meta VR devices and you talk about later, I know, but just want to highlight that fact as it fit good. But yeah, their devices that can have VR and AR experiences, right, and can deviate or can switch between those two.

Mark Smith: 6:52
Okay, and so Apple.

Christian Segurado: 6:54
Yeah, I haven't had my hands around it, but I'm excited to see how the experience is from a VR versus AR environment. As far as I understood, you can switch between both, but let's see. It's coming in a couple months, so Do you plan on getting?

Mark Smith: 7:15
one, definitely, definitely Nice, nice. And then I assumed that you've got Microsoft's device in the space. Have you on the V2 version?

Christian Segurado: 7:24
Yes, I mean HoloLens too. Definitely. Have a couple of those in my organization and one privately too, so Nice.

Mark Smith: 7:32
Okay. So, and then I think there's one other surface that a lot of people, when we have these discussions, tend not to look at, and that is the fact that your iPhone, you can put your camera on and you could definitely do an augmented reality experience right from a tablet device. You know, phone device etc is also in the mix. Yes, it's not a headset, but it's still part of how you, how you could use this take. Is that right?

Christian Segurado: 8:00
I'm still right. I mean there a couple of retailers actually that give you an AR experience, for example for the furniture, right, you want to see if that new desk fits in your living room or the new couch fits in living room. You can have that. You can use your phone as an AR device and blend it over the reality behind, over the physical reality, and can see if that red couch is actually soothing, you know, into your living space. So yeah, and there are of course also phone applications and or the phone can be used as an AR device.

Mark Smith: 8:28
Is this whole category still sitting well in the edge case scenario? Is it mainstream? You know we heard that, for example, back in the media a while ago that the US military probably bought every available device of HoloLens for, obviously, war game scenarios. Or is it more in that? Or are you seeing businesses seriously adopting this technology and it's part of their business, like it, whether it's day-to-day, whether it's you know what are you?

Christian Segurado: 9:06
seeing Very, very good question, and is it mainstream already? No, it will be still early and, however and I'm more and more clients get interested or seeing the benefits of it. Right, and it's an emerging technology. Right, it's still at a higher price point right. If you roll it out across your workforce, for example, on the job floor, well, there is a price point associated with it, right? But what I usually start with with prospects of clients approaching me is what is your business problem? And often it's oh yeah, we have a lot of, you know, quality issues on the job floor. Are we having? And? Or our experienced folks they get older and older and maybe, god of the workforce, we need to scale expert knowledge or we need to have better training, repeatable training, because you have a lot of turnover, right, and if that's the business problem, mixed reality could, for example, be a play to solve the business problem and have an impact on your eye right and, yes, in your bottom line. And so that's usually what I, what, what I try to, or try to plant a seed and encourage thinking out of the box how those emerging technologies can solve your problem. Is it mainstream? Not at this point, but we're getting more and more excited interaction around for sure.

Mark Smith: 10:20
I'll give you an interesting use case a friend of mine shared with me that worked at an oil refinery and I was talking about this tech and he's not a IT type person. He was like, oh no, we've used that, you know, in the refinery. I was like, how did? How did you come to use it? I'm like, oh well, we had a particular problem. So the, the manufacturer of this part, was in Europe, you know, we're on the other side of the world and so we put it on and he stepped through. You know what we needed to do to get an outcome. But everything was being recorded right, because part of their health and safety policy required that everything was recorded, etc. And at one point the guy was like, yeah, okay, that's it. I'll probably hit you up on another channel like just inferred that we need to speak, not with this on. Because he was like okay, so that's the the official way of doing it, and now you just go and actually do. This is the unofficial way, but this will get you the result. Do you see any of that kind of fear in the market that, because this is now obviously monitoring both sides of a conversation, everything's been recorded? Logically, that it people are more reserved, if you like, and what they're necessarily gonna say and do with the technology.

Christian Segurado: 11:44
I have mixed feelings here because, for example, if you are on a team's call and it's recorded right, you will probably also be a little more cautious what you're saying, maybe yes, exactly same experience here, right, I mean, for example, with Holland's to, if you're running a remote assist session, yes, you can record it, but it's similar, similar thing you would have when you record with a team's call, right, so I wouldn't say I wouldn't say that I actually think they're much more interesting use cases that you can have with a mobile, with the mobile nature of Holland's to right and, yeah, let's talk about remote audit, right, instead of traveling and with a five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten person team to decline to do the warehouse audit, guess what? You could potentially send the device the warehouse manager wears it, you sitting at home as an auditor and let the warehouse manager walk around and say, hey, turn left and right up down to the counter to this, to that, yes, pull in instructions in your view, and those, those use cases, or how you can solve those problems. And mixed reality, just, or Holland's to, and mixed reality gives you another way to solve those in a, I would argue, more efficient way yeah, awesome.

Mark Smith: 12:53
So let's talk about those use cases. Warehouse audit great, great use case. What are the other ones that you're seeing?

Christian Segurado: 12:59
they're dead. Well, of course, holland's itself a mixed reality. The theme rounded or the story is all about empowering the front line worker right. Usually you didn't have to write information or those front line workers didn't have to write information. At the right time, at the right place means on the job while doing complex tasks and where you were quiet at expert knowledge or, you know, a guided experience. So this is where Holland's to comes very handy ways, for example, the guides application or the remote assist application, and where me, as a manufacturing worker or an asset inspector, can get a repeatable and guide. I could guide it through that complex process and in a line with safety standards and lies, members, best practices and and and can execute a job, the complex job. I get literally the support and even if I don't know with I'm still getting stuck. I have the opportunity to, for example, call you sitting somewhere in the world and get expert knowledge and you, seeing what I'm seeing, you can throw in arrows, pull up documents in front of me and give me the support on the job game changer. So this is one of the use cases that is pretty big, and also in field service, of course, with remote assist if you're you know, like I just make it up, you're doing and, and a change of a wheel on on a race car or something like that. I just said very easy example, but, and you could get the support from an expert that's sitting somewhere else while doing the job. And that's yet another one that that we're seeing. But again, internal scenarios, like like a assisted audit, small internal scenario, and those are use cases that we're seeing more and more too. And this is specific for AR, right, when we talk about VR and and I can mention Microsoft mesh here and there are different use cases, more enhancing the collaboration and, for example, in in a more and more remote workforce, usually that feeling of To get an edge, or you know the tangent feeling, hey, we can, how we interact with each other is gone Because you have just two dimensions on a teams meeting, right, and yes, yes, and with a mesh you can bridge that, you can have, for example, imagine the impact for designers, engineers. Real estate developers they can meet in a VR space and get access to the third dimension and collaborate, yep, with that third dimension, the game changer.

Mark Smith: 15:32
So so, that's an example I saw some years ago in Barcelona by Satya presenting, which was, let's say, you had an executives for a multi-national company, yep, rather than meeting on a team's call, they could actually jump into a virtual room, all have their their HoloLens on, they could turn to a wall, let's say a Whiteboard or something like that, and they could proactively Interface with that whiteboard and sketch out ideas and concepts and would this work and and and have the to and fro, backwards and forwards, or even Run like a design thinking session, right where people you know use a method like rose thorn bud and they get their post-it notes and they go what's you know, what's working in the organization, what's not, what's our opportunity To move forward? But it would allow the equivalent of a physical present and, of course, one of the other selling points of it was when you leave that meeting, if anybody needed to go back and go. What do we do? What do we say in there? What was on that post-it note up at the top right corner? You could actually jump back into that meeting, go over to that whiteboard or or post-it board and go. Ah, yeah, that's what it was like, because it would still be there, the artifacts from you know Another word somebody couldn't wipe away your whiteboard. Right, it was there, it was. You could revisit it at a later date as such in the archive file. Are you seeing any of that type of what was shown as, I think, the precursor to mesh, or might have been even referred to as mesh? Then it was definitely demonstrating HoloLens, do you? Are you seeing any of that?

Christian Segurado: 17:10
So there are multiple aspects to it. Let me and start introducing a little bit more about mesh. First, right and Because mesh itself and it differs a little bit to what you described and it's it's a I would call it teams on steroids, to be fair, and Is a teams like experience. Again, you have x2. That's a dimension if you have your meta quest pro, your meta class 3 on and you can access the VR space, or you can also use a desktop experience, but of course, you don't get a certain dimension feeling, and so I would always recommend using the VR headset. And here the meeting is scheduled for 24 hours. At this point there's a 16 user restriction, one tenancy restriction, but at this point that's that's how it is, and you can jump into the meeting. After 24 hours you cannot access the meeting again. So that's how mesh at this point works, but it's it's a very smart position in terms of it's more an add-on to teams. Like a cherry on the cake, you can access the team's premium license rather than new skews. I think it's great adoption strategy. And to what you described, yes, and there was initially some Introductions to how mesh would look like on a whole lens, but I that's not that that was at some point drop and Mesh was more on top of teams and more on the VR side versus the AR side, so that's where we had right now interesting, interesting, interesting.

Mark Smith: 18:37
So so, if we looked at from the AR perspective, then what about the training scenario? Because some of the original ones were, let's say, you're on a car manufacturing line, yep, and you wanted to train people on, and of course you can do that visual overlay, and this is. You know, blah, blah, blah. Do you see a lot of the training? You know organizations wanting to use the tech for complex training. That that's physical world training.

Christian Segurado: 19:02
Yes, I mean we see a lot of, I mean the key or core industries. We seeing Traction or interest in mixed realities, manufacturing, education and retail and manufacturing recovered right, you supporting the, yes, front-end worker, but you can also overlay, for example, via spatial anchors, data from IOT sensors. You're walking around the floor. You see, oh my god, yes here the insights from the different it centers pretty cool actually. So it's more contextual overlay and on the educational side and this is very broad I mean it could be like a healthcare support right to how to do Implantology. I think we touched on that last last episode to mm-hmm, like training for implantology or for the healthcare sector, or it could be training for an electric and it could be training for an architect and or an engineer, yeah, and or you can run simulations. So it is pretty broad. What we seeing at this point is, and that a lot of clients would like are currently still interested in, the guides application. What is an out-of-the-box Microsoft business application?

Mark Smith: 20:08
based on reality. Right.

Christian Segurado: 20:09
Yeah and and as a starting point or entry point. But then when they get more tangible feeling for it and see the value at and they are more interested in to those custom scenarios Based on spatial anchors, right and, but yeah guides, mixed reality out of the box application is a good low-cost entry point to make reality and take advantage of repeatable guides.

Mark Smith: 20:31
Nice. How does licensing work with Microsoft on this take?

Christian Segurado: 20:34
good, good question. Love that. And there's a license for the, the guides business application, right? What's 60? What's it around about you and yours? 65 use dollars, if I'm not mistaken. A month, yes, per user.

Mark Smith: 20:48
Yeah.

Christian Segurado: 20:48
Yeah, so that's that, that that should be, or that's the guides slash, remote assist and License right. And, of course, if you build custom applications, I mean, there's some Azure consumption and stuff like that yeah, of course place a Microsoft still heavily investing in this space and in your experience being that it's not.

Mark Smith: 21:06
It's not on my radar of the folks I'm working within Microsoft's but I'm just, as someone that's you know, close to it yourself. Are you still seeing that investment? Because I know that there was whispers that people will let go in the space.

Christian Segurado: 21:19
Yes, I mean, I mean fortunately, unfortunately. I mean AI in Jenny is great, right, but of course this is in everyone's mind on mouse, so a lot of things are actually. Yeah, I mean, this is the core focus, right, but there is investment in industrial metaverse, but I guess the core or the focus of Microsoft is still AI at this point. But it's exciting to see what. What happens if there's more adoption, right, as we just talked about Apple bringing out their VR or their mixed reality device, right, and maybe getting more, you know, consumers Introduced to that technology. Because at this point, yeah, I think, if I'm walking out on Times Square and talk to 10 people if they have, you know, we're tried it out or played around with it you probably get maybe one that said yes. And so, yes, it's still early, as I said, an emerging technology, but it will disrupt industries in various, various ways.

Mark Smith: 22:15
Yeah, you just used an interesting term then, which was the industrial metaverse, which we hadn't mentioned yet, and I know it's a term that I'm hearing more and more in Microsoft circles. What? What is the industrial metaverse?

Christian Segurado: 22:29
Multiple things. One is, of course, access to VR AR devices. Then there is digital twin technology. Cloud Technologies of computing is also part of it, right, and I t sensors. It all plays together into a virtual representation of Anorganization. On process, right, I mean we have, for example, already touching on the warehouse, robotics and optimization side, or optimization side and Partnership with in via right, and we are robotics and they're running a complete digital twin of their warehouse and an optimized Routing here. So those scenarios we will see more. And then, of course, the VR and AR component is also part of that industrial metaverse story and, as we described, what type of companies are talking about industrial metaverse?

Mark Smith: 23:17
Are they? Are they pretty much in manufacturing?

Christian Segurado: 23:20
most, most of the folks that reference Industrial metaverse yeah, they are the manufacturing distribution space and yeah, yeah, your own point here.

Mark Smith: 23:31
I was listening podcast yesterday from Joe Rogan, who had Elon Musk on the show and and Elon was saying something very interesting. He goes, joe, public doesn't understand how complex manufacturing is. You know, he said something like you can have 10,000 things that need to happen to produce something and 999 of those might go right, but the one that doesn't work, it that means the product doesn't ship right. It actually means Heepery, work, etc. And he goes because there's and he said this injury. He said because there's never been a movie about manufacturing. He said the public don't understand manufacturing and just what's involved in the complexity to manufacture products at scale. Now we add what you're talking about digital twins, etc. Are you seeing that is an enabler, as in. You know what are people's thinking? Because I saw a demo some years ago and it was either by GE or Boeing, around aircraft engines and how they have created digital twin equivalents and allows them to run scenarios digitally. That that it allows them to find insights, wear points, break point, all that type of stuff without actually having to do it in the physical world, or it gives them insight to to lead to that. Then I've heard recently of an example of a company that this guy's role inside the organization was to understand the impact of a crash test on the model of vehicle that they were Manufacturing and he was saying that the problem was he he could only do so many crashes a year and collect the data around those and Every division in the company for every model a car. We also had their separate teams doing that and once he tied into the collective data of everything, they were able to massively reduce the physical crash scenarios and had to generate. Because I was doing it electronically. I was like man the shows. The power of data and electronics is so much cheaper than Physically taking a car and smashing against a wall or crash test dummy or whatever it was right. What are you seeing in that warehouse space, automation space, manufacturing space, where you know technology is taking much more of a front seat role because ultimately that's a more cost-effective way.

Christian Segurado: 25:56
Good, very, very, very lovely examples actually, and that you brought up and, as you said, digital twins and technology around that, and the benefit of is is actually that you can run scenarios right in the warehouse and fields, especially was automation field, where you, for example, have robotics running around to do your picking and Put wall right, where then your worker just needs to, you know, do the final contrainization and and here orders come in in real time right, it's not that we have a static data set that you know you need to work off orders, change cancellations, new orders coming in, and there is a constant Routing and recalculation of what is the most efficient way to get to that product, based on where it stored in your warehouse. So that logic and and running those simulations via digital twin are powerful because you can reduce walking times or routing times massively. And this is, this is one scenario that we are, we are partnered up with within via robotics and actually, and they're very strong.

Mark Smith: 27:00
Interesting. Tell us about AI and co-pilot. I know we've we've smashed through our time pretty quickly. Other such an interesting topic, but what are you doing in this space?

Christian Segurado: 27:09
Well, yeah, there's a lot of cool things happening on the AI gen, ai, co-pilot side of things. I mean just talking about business application space, right, and from Commerce right, where you can create content via and co-pilot. Instead of you manually need to recreate product descriptions and the content for your website, you can use chat, gpt or Indicate co-pilot measure our service, right. And yeah, yeah, yeah, you can reply to to custom emails based on the sentiment and or the the history can summarize a project status Reports or projects to his project status report and I mean you can, you can adjust named literally examples across, you know dynamics, 65 project operations, finance and operations, supply chain, commerce, marketing, sales and service. I mean across all those product lines. We see those and if I would say, enable us, or, and yeah, things that make your process more efficient and and what is what is great in the end for the, for the end user, because things that probably were not the favorite part of your day usually and are now taken on by by those co-pilot Processes and and you can literally focus on higher value adding tasks. What is great?

Mark Smith: 28:34
So yesterday I was in a session with with Ryan Cunningham. He was in New Zealand and and I attended a session and he said something very interesting. He said where will you still be relevant in three years? Right, and I thought it was an interesting one. It was interesting coming from him and Interesting that he was, course, talking about co-pilots and AI and I've done another show around ecosystems With a bunch of mates and it's about. You know, the value pyramid and the ecosystem pyramid is at the top of it Are building apps and solutions which really in the next three to five years, I don't think we'll have a concept of low code, will have a concept of no code, right, because you will use a. However advanced the AI has become and I see open AI said this week that they're in the final stages of GPT-5, right, and the training around that. So we're seeing some, you know, massive speed In this year. We've gone from what 3.5 turbo to four to now five has been talked about publicly. Three years time, right, if we got three in the last year, how much is that acceleration gonna increase and how much of what we do manually now do you see is gonna be so awesome in that we can tap into amazing data sets and knowledge and build things that we, you know, might not have the developer, we might not be programmers, we might not know how to the nuances of it. But, of course, in the advances of these large language models, who knows where we'll go? Will it be a large language model? What will be the next of any of where we are going? You know what's your thoughts, your crystal ball for the next three years.

Christian Segurado: 30:22
Very, very interesting perspective and question. I mean, if you think back historically, technology where it came from, where it went initially, when computers got introduced or the internet and there was always talk, oh, you know like it makes things, you know, redundant. And, yeah, there are certain, certain roles that will be probably changed. But, for example, just talking about the co-pilot programs, to start with, as it says it's brand as co-pilot, there's still a pilot in the pilot seat that needs to trigger and it should be that way. Right, you still need to validate and adjust things because it's not perfect at this point. I'm looking out to the future, as you said. Will I be still relevant? I think so, because in the end, it makes your day more efficient. There will be probably a shift to other tasks or responsibilities. Instead of, you know, like, doing the low hanging fruit tasks, you can shift to more rewarding or high-valuing tasks. I still think we will be in the loop and we should. There's also that concept of save AI and how to implement it responsibly and in those discussions, and we should take it seriously. Right, that we're still in the loop, we are still in control and, yes, there will be shift in roles and responsibilities and certain roles and responsibilities will not be there anymore. I'm certainly saying that. But it will just change your focus to other tasks, or your role will just change Like it did in the past. Right With technology development, it was not oh, okay, now you know things completely are wiped out. It was more. Hey, things changed. A different skill set became more needed. And especially when you talk about the coding part. Right, I mean GitHub co-pilot you probably checked it out already. Yes, yes, it is great for doing 75% 70% of your work, especially low hanging, no complex kind of work but there still needs to be someone who needs to understand it, validate it. Make sure to tweak the remaining 25, 30% of issues so there still will be a need for developers in terms of experts that understand it and can bring it over the finish line. Even though it's getting more efficient, there will be still an expert needed to validate, sign off on it, make sure it doesn't do crazy stuff. So I still think that the terminology co-pilot programs or co-pilot in general is very meaningful in that regard.

Mark Smith: 32:58
But we're talking about three years time. In three years time will you and I be the co-pilot, in other words, the AIs the lead, and they're saying, hey, we'll augment you in when we need you. Human, and we believe in co-pilot. It's just that you got the wrong role reversed here. I'm the pilot, you're the co-pilot. I mean, we're talking three years time and in our civilization, the intelligent species always rise. The most intelligent species always rise to the top. This might be a non-biological intelligent species that's about to, in three years time might want humans to be co-pilots and it's the pilot yeah, I get where you're coming from.

Christian Segurado: 33:43
I personally don't believe we should let it get that far.

Mark Smith: 33:48
I wanted to get that far because I think it would eliminate so much of the bias in the world that's either bias because of geopolitical bias, because of greed, because of so many of these things. You could have an AI that has that all cleaned up out of it and says listen, I'll act in the best interests of humankind. It's just not all humans are gonna like what the best interest is gonna look like, that have been financially motivated and or greed motivated, et cetera. Up to this point.

Christian Segurado: 34:26
Yeah, and, as you said, perspectives are always different from which background you're coming in, so that will be a hard one. I mean. I personally believe innovation in the past and in the future brings together technology, ideas, processes and people, and the people and then will still be relevant and an important factor in driving technology. It's not the other way around.

Mark Smith: 34:48
Yeah, it's interesting to speculate, right, it's interesting we might find that we've already in the matrix and just used as fuel cells. But yeah, chris, so good chatting to you, I love it. I love bouncing this type of thing as in and seeing the insights of what you're doing. I think that your particular area of tech is so exciting because it is blending, so many of you know, some would say the bleeding edge of technologies. It's definitely the cutting edge, right, and how you know, in the last 12 months, ai coming so prevalent in this mix of AR, vr, mixed reality. I think, mate, you're an exciting place, yeah.

Christian Segurado: 35:34

I mean, if you add a little bit AI sprinkles over VR. I mean there are certain scenarios where both can come together right. Also, for example, with large language model bought in VR, let's say for onboarding right, I'm getting hired today and I don't know what my role is right, you could have a large language model bought in VR, have an VR onboarding experience instead of those static videos that, I'm sorry, I mean, probably nobody watches anyway. When you get onboarded right, you can have a more you know and take engaging experience and in the end, have a bot there that answers, based on your knowledge base, what the role of a senior consultant should do, what the role of an accountant should do. How many PDOs do we have Instead of you know, trying to find an employee handbook? That may take you an hour. So there's also use cases where VRAR can come together with AI here. That's what I'm currently exploring a lot, actually, I love it.

Mark Smith: 36:32

Hey, thanks for listening. I'm your host business application MVP Mark Smith, otherwise known as the NZ365 guy. If there's a guest you'd like to see on the show, please message me on LinkedIn. If you want to be a supporter of the show, please check out buymeocoffeecom or slash NZ365 guy. Stay safe out there and shoot for the stars.