PowerDocu and the Art of Managing Multitenancy in a Global Powerhouse with Rene Modery

Mark Smith: 0:31
Welcome to the Power Platform Show. Thanks for joining me today. I hope today's guests inspires and educates you on the possibilities of the Microsoft Power Platform. Now let's get on with the show. This episode will be focusing on the Power Platform Multitenant Environment and we'll also do a bit of a deep dive into a specialist documentation product for your solutions that you build on the Power Platform. My guest today is from Singapore. He works as a Power Platform Technical Lead at WPP. He's more than 15 years experience in IT, with major focus on the Power Platform and Microsoft 365. You can find links to his bio, social media etc. In the show notes for this episode as well as, if we refer to any resources, you will be able to find them linked in the show notes. With that, welcome to the show, renee. Hi Mark, we're glad to be here. Good to have you on the show. Before we kick off and talk about Power Dock U, as well as this Multitenant Environment, which I find very interesting and something that I've been doing a bit with myself in this past year, tell us about food, family and fun. What do you do when you're not working?

Rene Modery : 1:51
When I'm not working. Sometimes it feels like that doesn't happen very often these days, but I've got two, obviously. I mean, yes, family is obviously a big part. Kids spend a lot of time with them. Other than that, I've got Star Wars plays a big part in my life. You could say I've been a huge fan for a long time. I've got a huge comic collection. I'm in the process of creating my own Mandalorian armor. I bought a 3D printer printed stuff, sanded, painted stuff, working on it so in the next few weeks I should have that ready. So that's the next big thing for me right now that I'm really spending my spare time on.

Mark Smith: 2:29
That is phenomenal and sounds very, very interesting. What 3D printer did you go with?

Rene Modery : 2:37
I bought the Ender 3, I forgot the exact full name.

Mark Smith: 2:43
What was your decision making process around what particular printer you settled on, because you've got a lot of choice.

Rene Modery : 2:50
Yeah, obviously you do your research, you see that there's a range of different brands and then you just get lost because there are lots of options. I decided to check what can I easily get here in Singapore, what kind of support is there and which models are there? And obviously there are a couple of brands, couple of models that are usually generally recommended by people. So I wanted to make sure I get something that people are happy with, don't complain about. Then I just pick which one was convenient for me to get. So it was really I wouldn't want to say a very deep dive process, but they're just snaring it down to a couple of models and saying, yeah, I'm just going to pick that one before I spend too much time figuring out which one might be the best.

Mark Smith: 3:25
Do you? Would you still buy the same model again now that you've worked with it a bit?

Rene Modery : 3:30
Well, I don't have any experience with others. Obviously, I see comments from other people with other printers and I think, yeah, probably this is also good. I would still say it by the same printer. Actually I'm very happy with it. Good, learned a lot with it because obviously my expectation was it's going to work most of the time. Didn't quite work most of the time because I made mistakes, printer was interrupted, funny stuff happening. So you learn a lot actually in the first few months of using it. But then things get quite stable and so, yeah, right now is, you could say, printing nonstop. So I print stuff for the kids, for myself. Yeah, there's always something that you think, yeah, I could print that If Christmas around the corner started printing Christmas ornaments for the tree and yeah, it's quite a lot of fun actually.

Mark Smith: 4:11
That's so cool and I know this is not our main topic, but do you, when you say you're creating the or you're printing the Mandalorian armor, are you talking about full life size as a new could fit the armor, or are you talking about like a figurine?

Rene Modery : 4:28
I printed figurines, but yes, I'm talking about full life size, so it's going to be wearable. I'm going to wear that and it's not the Mandalorian from the show but a Mandalorian armor. But still helmet, shoulders, chest, back, knees, everything printed. Most of it has been prepared and is ready, nearly ready to be worn, but still a couple more weeks to get everything done. Yeah.

Mark Smith: 4:50
So once you put the helmet on, will you ever take it off?

Rene Modery : 4:54
I probably have to probably Some point.

Mark Smith: 4:58
Yes, so you can't be a true Mandalorian right. And there she go for a dip in the I forget where it was.

Rene Modery : 5:05
I have to go and have a secret water.

Mark Smith: 5:08
Yes, yeah, awesome. Now you mentioned Singapore there. I take it you're not Singaporean, so what took you to Singapore?

Rene Modery : 5:18
I'm originally from Germany and a long, long, long time ago, when I was studying, I had to do an internship as part of my studies and then I said, yeah, I want to go somewhere else, so not stay within Europe, where obviously things are fairly similar or close to each other. I wanted to experience something different and somehow I found Singapore. So, yeah, hey, singapore is in Asia, but they speak English. That sounds good, because I didn't want to go somewhere where I could say that the language would be something completely different or something like that. So I didn't really know what to expect, obviously being young and never having lived abroad for a longer period of time. So I thought, yeah, singapore sounded good, came over here then for that internship and obviously I had my culture shock at the very first night and the first few days and weeks, but then I started to like it more and more over time. So at the end of the internship I extended the internship and decided also, I want to come back to Singapore quickly, run back to Germany, finish my studies and came back to Singapore and to really start working. I thought, hey, I'm going to just stay here as long as I like it. If I ever don't like it anymore. Then I can just go back to Germany or see where else I could go or something like that. But yeah, that was a long time ago, as mentioned. So I came here in 2006 the first time, so nearly 18 years ago, and I'm still here. I still love it. So, yeah, that's how I got here, that's how I got to say for the love of Singapore and why I'm still here.

Mark Smith: 6:41
It's an amazing place, singapore, and I've been to it multiple times across my career, as in the very first time was for Microsoft work a while I went there and you know it's interesting in having a stable government. I suppose how it does that really orchestrates how society runs, but not in a dictatorial way, right? And what are your thoughts from living there? And just, it's like a place you can't really fault. It's almost like a utopia in a way in how they've created a society that seems to benefit everybody, that allows everybody to grow, but of course there are some rules in place too To enable that to happen.

Rene Modery : 7:26
What are your?

Mark Smith: 7:26
thoughts.

Rene Modery : 7:27
I probably think that my thoughts changed a bit over time. When I first came in here in August, the government it's one big party and they've been power ever since Singapore was founded and they have the majority ever since. Obviously, that felt a bit like a bit of a concern for me, thinking, yeah, all in all democracies you've got a range of different parties, etc. But over time obviously I don't want to say my opinion fully changed here, but I can see obviously that the government here is, as you said. Basically it's not really like a very pure, restrictive kind of ruling party, a ruling system etc. It is still obviously meant to benefit the country overall. You could say, obviously we could discuss for hours in terms of, hey, if they certain policies it could, or bad, I'm not going to say everything is obviously perfect. I mean say utopia, obviously, being here, we see all the so to say bad things as well. But obviously I know that the stability that we have here overall I would say is a very positive thing. And while there are definitely you could say policies or comments or actions, for example from politicians or the ruling party or so that I might say, no, I disagree with it, I would also say, yeah, I can obviously complain a lot about Germany as well, regardless which party we look at or which who's currently the chancellor or anything. So obviously expectation is no, there's never a perfect system, there's never a perfect government in place, etc. And obviously my hope is that and that's my constant hope is that it's not just that, yeah, there's a strong, good ruling party, but also that the opposition obviously then is also getting better and stronger, because you want to make sure that nobody gets complacent and thinks, yeah, everything's awesome, we'll just leave it as it is. But obviously there's that constant we call it the constant review to see how can we do even better, potentially, yeah, yeah, obviously. That's roughly my views in the nutshell. Like I said, we could talk about you, talk for us, but yeah, yeah, yeah I always liked constraining myself not to go down a rabbit hole.

Mark Smith: 9:35
Yeah, tell me about WPP, the company you work for.

Rene Modery : 9:38
Yeah, so WPP is a very, very large organization that rarely anyone ever heard of. So most people I talk to they may only have heard of it if they heard about one of our operating companies or maybe know somebody who worked for us. So WPP is the world's largest media and advertisement company. So we've got more than 100,000 employees worldwide spread over very large number of operating companies. So it's not just WPP, but rather there are a range of operating companies under that big WP umbrella. So that's, for example, crew BAM with 35,000 employees or so globally. Even crew BAM consists of multiple agencies like WaveMaker, essence, mediacom, others, etc. So basically it's quite large overall the setup. What that means for us. Really, we work, as mentioned, media and advertisement industry. Our clients are then usually the big other companies that need to create advertisements, produce something, place it somewhere. Maybe they want to launch some I don't know marketing events etc. Somewhere within the WP company. There's usually somebody who can help them. Obviously, it just means overdoing one thing, but rather the you know what to call it the full lifecycle of yeah, thank you, we have a new product launch that we need to do and we need to place advertisements etc. We can help there, obviously. Then what it now means obviously has meant is that the spread across the globe very large, from an organizational point of view, very complicated. I joined, for example, crubem nearly five years ago. Crubem is one of, as mentioned, one of our operating companies and I was within Crubem IT. Now we've got a centralized city, so now moved up to WPIT, and even right now I feel like we're so big that sometimes you don't even know what's actually fully out there, both from an operation and not from an operation From organizational view, but also from a again from a technical point of view then, obviously, with what we're dealing with, etc.

Mark Smith: 11:47
Well, you know, I just took a quick look on the website and Ogilvy, of course, is one of the big brands that jumps out to me. You know which are, you know, I'm familiar with many I don't probably more European based organizations. What is your background? I just want to bring this together. What's your background in the Power Platform?

Rene Modery : 12:05
So Power Platform for me was something I started to look at a couple of years ago. So I come from a SharePoint background. I started working with SharePoint in 2007 and continued working with it for more than a decade. Basically, that brought me then obviously to Office 365 and that then obviously also led me a bit to the Power Platform. So, as you know, I mean Power Platform. People usually come either from SharePoint or Dynamics background. I'm the SharePoint guy, so to say, then, and for me it was really Office 365, had, obviously, sharepoint workflows in there. There were info platforms in there, and at some point Microsoft said, oh, we're going to deprecate those, and I was then obviously looking at what kind of replacements are there? And 2016. Then Microsoft started introducing Power Apps and that's when I started to look into it a bit and that obviously then became a bit more and more over time, looking more at Power Apps, looking a bit more into Power Automate and any of the other power products in the Power Platform obviously. Then. So yeah, for me it was really getting slowly started with it as that side activity and then, over time, also looking at yeah, now we also need to look at, for example at yeah, there are lots of apps out there. Maybe you should actually figure out who's creating apps, those kind of things. So that's when I was working at Krubem and we started to look at, yeah, we should probably introduce some governance and see if you can support other people, and that's how slowly. Focus more on Power Platform and less on SharePoint and off 65 over time.

Mark Smith: 13:40
Nice. So give me an understanding, because we mentioned multi-tenant and sometimes there's a confusion with people. They get tenants and environments mixed up, and so at a starting point, tell me about your tenant setup and what are you kind of responsible for from a tenant perspective.

Rene Modery : 14:03
So I just described, obviously, the complicated setup of WPP with a range of operating companies, which also meant then that historically, there were a range of tenants Microsoft 365 tenants basically that were set up and obviously was not maybe the best idea, but that's how things started many years ago Also meant that companies decided at some point yeah, we don't need I have no idea how many tenants and does make sense to operate on a very large scale across too many tenants. Let's try to consolidate where it makes sense. So that happened then, also over the past few years. So we ended up with what we call the 10 strategic tenants. So really, 10 tenants that we will focus on. Anything outside of that would likely then be integrated at some point or it's, so to say, out of scope for our core team. So my self, for example, me and the Power Platform team we don't look at anything else besides these 10 tenants. If there is another tenant, yeah, we don't even know about it, we don't have access to it, etc. 10 is obviously still a very large number. Yes, it's actually even getting smaller. Now One of the tenants is just getting, so to say I'm going to say decommissioned. We just started migrating off that tenant. So users moving to other tenants, where they usually should be, could be apps, flow, sharepoint, teams, etc. Everything migrated. So we are, so to say, already now thinking in terms of, yeah, we only have nine tenants and because obviously it's boring if you don't do a migration and merge it, company also decided, yeah, let's actually merge two of our big operating companies, vml YR and Wonderman Thompson, move them into one big VML entity. Which means that we now also need to think about yeah, there's going to be a next big, yeah, tenant merger also happening at some point soon. Well, soon, obviously, starting preparation is ongoing, but they are starting. So, yeah, that's, so to say, the overview of what we have. So 10 tenants was the starting point for us. Right now it's nine. In the future it's going to be eight, but yeah, we are still dealing with multiple.

Mark Smith: 16:12
You got 109,000 employees worldwide. How do you? I take it a lot of those organizations. Those companies are obviously operating under their own domain name and hence why they got their own tenant, correct yeah. The mergers make sense, bring them into one. It's funny. I was involved in a rail company that acquired three or four different rail companies and we went through a multi-year process of joining them all together. It'd become a single one. At the end of the exercise, the board decided to split the company up and sell off all these individual rail companies. So it's funny how it goes up and it goes down. Right, it contracts an extra. You know, have you always then? Was 10 the maximum number of tenants, or did there used to be more than that and you've got to 10,? What was the really starting point around about?

Rene Modery : 17:04
There were more. I honestly don't even know how many there were. That was, so to say, before my time. So when I was just part of one of the operating companies, I only looked at that Crubam tenant, or within that Crubam tenant, I didn't even know how many others there were. I mean, I knew that there were some, but I didn't know the full scope. Even right now I think there's still a few other tenants, so to say that exists, but, like I said, they're not in scope for us because they might be way too small, maybe getting decommissioned at some point. So other people, other teams look after them. But yeah, so I'm not gonna say 10 was that magic number to be worked towards too. It was probably just the one that, from organizational and technical point of view, just started to make sense.

Mark Smith: 17:45
Yeah. So the scenarios I've come across is at least two tenants right Inside a large organization and the two tenants are not there because that was a design decision. It was there because the organization may be running in a very siloed approach to how it did business and the business got their tenant and run their business a certain way and then IT we're like, no, we should be creating segregation. And sometimes it's an education thing where people are doing multi-tenant because they don't understand in a multi-environment strategy, right, so they don't understand that you can still segregate everything but in an environmental view. And then, of course, one of the challenges that you have with a multi-tenant strategy is then do you have a multi-license strategy? Because the licenses don't go across tenants in that scenario and so therefore it creates its own set of challenges. Now I take it the licensing is not an issue for you because nobody would need, theoretically, from a user base, to be in different tenants. Would that be the case?

Rene Modery : 18:54
Actually, if you think about it, I mean a large organization. I asked we sometimes have organization-wide things that need to be happening, so that you're not just saying, yeah, we need to. Let's say, for example, we launch an app and it needs to be accessible only by one operating company. Yeah, you could put into one tenant, but there's obviously often a need to have something really company-wide overall. Now, obviously, tooling-wise, it might mean that there are other things that you think about, but, for example, from just thinking in terms of, for example, scenarios that we had recently, sometimes you might want to really target people across different tenants, not because you say I need people from different tenants, but that's just really because where they are. What we had very recently, for example, we had a PowerApp that went live in October that was launched by the legal team actually. So they need to ask our global CEOs and CFOs, for example, for declaration. They need to make a declaration saying, yes, my company, my SOX entity, basically that I'm responsible for, are there any conflicts of interest? Are there any other potential conflicts from a compliance point of view? They just need to make that annual statement, something like, oh, my wife is working for a competitor, or my niece is working in my company, something like that. Basically, obviously because, again, from a compliance point of view, there may be things to be reviewed, because they might be, as you can imagine, obviously they're legally okay, but better to basically get it officially confirmed that everything is properly done, etc. So, anyway, I described the big company setup we've got. I don't know how many companies, but I know that we targeted around 1000, then 100 something CEOs and CFOs globally actually. And to complete that declaration, that conflict of interest form, and that really meant they are spread across tenants. So when you think about, oh, do they need to have a license somewhere else or do they need to access something somewhere else, and you think about, yeah, how do you make that accessible? And because it's a PowerApp, we then, for example, had to decide, yes, it needs to be centrally somewhere. Let's not put out an app in each tenant and consolidate afterwards, but rather we want one single source of truth. Actually, and obviously came with a lot of other challenges. Then PowerApps went relatively well. I say relatively well because we're having an ongoing discussion right now with Microsoft around the licensing aspects, because the documentation says it shouldn't work, but it does work. Accessing a Canvas app with data-verse should not be possible from a licensing perspective unless you have a license and host tenant in the app the tenant hosting the app. But we are fully licensed, we've got all premium licenses. So that's good, but we don't want to obviously double-license people. So what it simply said means then yeah, if I come from again CrewBam and I access the app in the corporate tenant, then I would theoretically need a license in the corporate tenant. But we realized, oh, you don't need it. But, yeah, ongoing discussions with Microsoft here, just make sure that things are done properly, working properly. Microsoft was involved, obviously, from very early in the project, et cetera. I hope there's a lot and it's quite interesting, obviously because, as I described earlier what I wanted to start with, you sometimes really have that scenario where you want to really have an app that is centrally available and accessible to the whole company, not because all 100,000 people will need to access it, but there may be again a reason where people from across the tenants may need to access something or want to do something with the app.

Mark Smith: 23:30
So you know, my solutioning head goes off then and I'm just like why wouldn't you just create a PowerPage portal, right, which would allow you to address that scenario? Was there something complex enough that required that couldn't be done in a portal that needed a cab?

Rene Modery : 23:47
as well? Good question. It's probably an alternative. Let's call it a network. I would have to review all the requirements again and see there is a chance that it could work, but I'm not gonna say practically that it would be definitely an alternative. It's, yeah, as you know, obviously there are always multiple ways to get something done, of course. Of course that's never a best way. We figured out that the way we did it. Right now it's working. We know that there are a range of let's call it identity-related issues, but maybe PowerPages could have resolved that, or maybe not. No idea actually, because again it's described basically. I mean, you sometimes surface on issues in the technology stack that are not visible until you yourself do something.

Mark Smith: 24:33
Interesting scenarios that you have and any other challenges that you came across. Did you come across or do you come across in overseeing 10 tenants?

Rene Modery : 24:45
Yeah, I mean, obviously what it means is there's a lot happening. So, I mean, the big challenge that we knew we had to tackle was how can we figure out what's happening where? And obviously that meant deploying the Microsoft series starter kit to all of those tenants, because, I mean, we can't manage the platform if we don't know what's out there. We have no insights into who are our top makers and which apps are popular and how many flows do we have all that information? And, yeah, not possible. You don't want to go into 10 tenants and look at things 10 different times. As a rather idea, you want to have, ideally, a centralized view of things. So that's why I deployed the series starter kit into each tenant. And then, because it comes with a dashboard, we also then, so to say, aggregated or merged the data from each tenant to a single data set. So, like I said, we don't have to look into 10 different data sets but rather have a single view on yeah, hopefully, everything that basically.

Mark Smith: 25:42
How do you make sure that? Have you scripted around making sure that every time Microsoft drops a new update in the COE starter kit, that you deploy that across all of them? How do you handle that? Kind of admin overhead.

Rene Modery : 25:58
That's obviously an interesting thing. Like I said, I mean, doing things 10 different times is never really fun because, as you can imagine, I mean doing it in one tenant could work. Doing it in 10 tenants there's a chance that it will fail somewhere because of some other slightly different configuration or some other difference. While it should be mostly standardized now, obviously there's never a full 100% guarantee. So, yeah, strategy for us, we're not doing a monthly update. That would be probably I don't know a full-time job being making sure that it's working, that it's tested before we update it and then just start the same thing again. Great too much. I would say. Yes, we Microsoft, I think recommends doing it every three months, but we realized we focus on every six months unless there's really something absolutely critical that we need to deploy. Six months seem to be like that sweet spot, so that, yeah, we're maybe not as current as Microsoft recommends, but it's an acceptable risk for us. It means we've got time to focus on other things the functionality that we have. We are happy with it. Everything seems to be working then, and updates then obviously mean that it's a lengthier activity of a couple of weeks then, because deploying the update is something where we then spend a lot of time testing, reviewing, making sure that things are still working. They were working before on any new things we need to consider. All of that obviously then flows into that process, so yeah, that's why every six months sounds good for us right now.

Mark Smith: 27:28
Yeah, do you have any in the scenario? Do you have any nuances around things like, ultimately, what is your tenant? Things are deployed to as in. So, from a geographic perspective, whether you've got records that have data sovereignty issues, does that play into what you're doing, or is your industry not really affected by this?

Rene Modery : 27:53
Not too much, I would say. I mean, from a location point of view, I think all of our tenants are situated in Europe. I don't think we've got actually a tenant that is directly in, let's say, the US, definitely not in Asia actually. So, yes, that might even simplify things top. Obviously, the only thing that we then do is obviously sometimes you might say, yeah, we need a, for example, a new power platform environment that we then set up in a geographic location closer to its target audience. But we are global business. Sometimes you know, oh, you need to set up something for, again, I don't know, the US market only, or so then obviously just say, yeah, why not deploy it over there and not have it in Europe?

Mark Smith: 28:36
But that's it, and so would you classify yourself as a European business or a British business? And the reason I ask this is that on Wikipedia it has all your financial earnings and pounds, not euros, and so therefore, are you more governed by EU regulation or UK?

Rene Modery : 28:57
I feel like I'm not in a position to fully comment on that properly. So we are headquartered in the UK yes, so that's one part, but obviously very global company and as described basically, I mean we have companies everywhere. So obviously there's Kruhbemme Germany, ogilvy, france, etc. Etc. So obviously then that means yesterday, obviously also under the respective European laws, then depending on European laws, then depending on the as well. So yeah, from a legal point of view, if there is ever any question that I would have basically, oh, can we actually put something in certain geography or so, or should we not put it in a certain geography? I'm not going to make the decision myself, obviously. That's where I then rely on other teams and obviously then say, oh, from a legal point of view, this is the status and that's OK, or that's not the case, etc.

Mark Smith: 29:50
Awesome, interesting. I could talk a lot more on this, but I see we're running out of time, so I'd like to switch gears and talk about PowerDocu. Tell me what is PowerDocu?

Rene Modery : 30:03
So PowerDocu is a small tool that I developed a bit more than two years ago to help with documenting your power apps, specifically canvas apps, and then your power automate flows. So the need I saw personally, but also from a professional point of view, was that, yeah, you saw, you've got some apps, you've got some flows. They exist, they run, they work, but they were not fully documented potentially, and once you need to support them, you want to make changes to them. You need to dive in again to figure out what is actually in there, what kind of environment variables I use, or on which screen is a certain component used, or in your flow, for example, what kind of I don't know connector sign used, all those kind of things basically. And my idea was I want to get some technical documentation done automatically so that I could simply set and take my app or my flow or a solution with apps and flows, run it through the tool and it spits out a standardized documentation so I see immediately, for example, for an app, how many screens are there, how many controls are there, which controls on which screen. When I click on this button, what's going to happen, which code gets executed, all those kind of things basically, and yeah, so I decided to initially then just see if that could even be done and the mini prototype was working, the small proof of concept and then I just expanded it over time. So current status is like I said canvas apps can get documented, flows can get documented, started to document dataverse tables so that I can slowly move towards model-driven apps as well. Yes, goal is still to expand and enhance the tool over time. I don't want to say constantly, because I took a six-month break now and I'm about to start it again now, basically once my Christmas break starts. But yeah, really want to make sure that more things get added because, as I described basically, I mean there's always that personal or professional need from my side as well. Sometimes what I do is oh, we've got an app internally and I need to figure out what's actually in there, so run it through the tool, I get my documentation. I can use that documentation then to see what's happening in the solution with the different apps and flows, et cetera, without having to deploy it and looking at it from. Yeah, really, by opening the flows and apps directly, et cetera.

Mark Smith: 32:24
Nice, and so it's available on GitHub right. It's freely available to anyone so happy to also get any contributions.

Rene Modery : 32:30
Obviously. I mean it's on GitHub. I received some pull requests as well with some smaller changes, and always happy to see that obviously, because right now it's, so to say, a big one-man show and, like I said, I mean I took a six-month break which meant that nothing much happened actually in the past six months. But I think other people who might have some ideas or recommendations, I mean happy for any kind of feedback or support that is out there.

Mark Smith: 32:57
Nice, nice, I like it. I like seeing these tools crop up and really massive time savers for organizations who would be interesting to see how this tool used in conjunction with a large language model and therefore to find gaps, you know, proactively, based on what it's identifying as well. But yeah, good work, good work, love your community contribution. Before I let you go, renee, is there anything else you'd like to close out with Good?

Rene Modery : 33:28
question. That's probably the trickiest question for me. I don't even know what to say right now. We had a great conversation. There's always a lot more to talk, but yeah, I mean, as we are approaching Christmas period and New Year's period I don't know when the recording is going to go out, but to have us listening, we'll have a happy, merry Christmas, very merry Christmas, sorry. Have a happy New Year and, yeah, happy to see you and your children also in the New Year again.

Mark Smith: 33:55
Hey, thanks for listening. I'm your host business application MVP Mark Smith, otherwise known as the NZ365 guy. If there's a guest you'd like to see on the show, please message me on LinkedIn. If you want to be a supporter of the show, please check out buymeacoffeecom. Forward slash NZ365 guy. Stay safe out there and shoot for the stars.